DJ 7L and his longtime vocal collaborator Esoteric have been underground staples for almost a decade now, and with each record they make it becomes more and more evident that they are approaching a plateau of musical creativity and synchronicity that few artists ever achieve. It’s an innate, indefinable something that goes beyond chemistry or timing or vision. From their earliest days the Boston duo has been tagged with such lofty adjectives as “innovative” and “groundbreaking” terms that can sometimes weigh a group down with expectations. From Esoteric’s ambidextrous skills with metaphors, punchlines, battle Raps and concepts to 7L’s uncanny ability to produce distinct, unique tracks this Boston duo has kept itself fresh by sticking to the most basic concepts of Hip-Hop: beats and rhymes.

Now, back in 2004 with a new album, Dangerous Connection 2: Bars of Death and a new label (Babygrande Records) 7L & Esoteric keep it going with the same tried and true ethos that has been their foundation since inception.

Fat Tony: First off, how do yall feel about the Nomar trade?

Eso: (Laughing) it could go either way, man. I understand the pros and the cons of it. He’s definitely an icon for the Red Sox, but baseball is big business and there’s so many different factors that go into that type of deal, you know?

FT: Yeah I feel that, but I hate Nomar, especially now that he’s in the National League, so fuck ‘em. Anyway, you guys have just dropped Dangerous Connection 2: Bars of Death on your new label, Babygrande Records. Now that the album is done and out there are you happy with it?

7L: Definitely, I think that with as much time as we spent working on it and how much we liked it we kind of felt that, for the most part, our fans feel the same way: that it’s top-notch record, that it’s our best work. It’s been good; it feels like all our hard work has paid off.

FT: Can you explain the concept behind the titles Dangerous Connection and Bars of Death? Has this been a planned thing since DC1 or did it just kind of happen?

7L: It wasn’t planned, DC2 just came from this LP being an extension of the first one, plus this was originally going to be an EP. But as time went on we recorded more material and that title of DC2: Bars of Death was already out there, so we just stuck with it. But don’t worry, you won’t be seeing a DC3: Chopped and Screwed, I think we are moving on. We have however knocked a few new joints in the can. We never sleep. Like Biz. We plan on having, maybe 4 songs done and complete before we hit the road in October. Not to mention, Beyonder and me already ran through 5-6 songs for Vinyl Thug 2 already.

FT: As you guys go further in your career, how do you approach making an album, production-wise?

7L: With the beats [for DC2] I wanted to keep a little variety, even though, personally I like one kind of style, you know what I mean? And I could make 20 beats in that one style for an album and still be 100% satisfied, you know, just battle raps for an entire album and I’d be happy, but that’s not the way the world works. I think consciously, beat-wise, I was taking a chance using beats and styles that I might not normally have done. Whatever beats I gave to Eso, he wrote to, and it just came out the way it did.

FT: What have you learned over the years about the process of making an album?

7L: Not being afraid of technology.

FT: Getting into some of Eso’s lyrics on the album, all throughout there are different themes that delve into. You seem to cover everything from the classic type of battle raps, to conceptual shit, to a track like “Touchy Subject” where you address and explore some racial issues.

Eso: The concept for that track just came up from the friendship I have with Uno the Prophet. We had been down with each other for a long time. He’s my age, probably a little older so we both kind of come from the old school, from the Golden Age; we both have the same similar understanding of good Hip-Hop. He has a lot of problems with the independent Hip-Hop scene and the underground. I’m not sure just why we hit it off, but we did. He basically challenged me to come to his crib and have a debate with him about the state of Hip-Hop and the state of the underground movement versus other sub-genres of Hip-Hop. I would go over there and build with him for hours at a time and just debate about all this shit with him and his boys. The song just stems from our discussions and then we figured we should make a song and kind of put these discussions on wax. He really wanted to take it full scale and do like a tour where the two of us debate throughout the U.S.A. He does a lot of public speaking

7L: Yeah, he’s the head of the new Black Panther Party here in Boston and he spends a lot of time traveling and speaking at colleges.

FT: All that and puts out records too?

Eso: Yeah, he’s got all kinds of connects to Dead Prez and Public Enemy, the real Pro-Black movement.

FT: How did Yall initially hook up?

Eso: From open mic nights, I was hosting an open mic in Boston back in like ’98, ’99 when the whole face of underground Hip-Hop was sort of changing and there were a whole bunch of people coming up, from corny kids trying to grab a mic cause it’s safe to real talented MC’s getting up and doing their thing. I really noticed Uno when he came up and tore the house down with his spoken word stuff. He really hit the nail on the head. We kind of built from there. That song is only an inkling of his depth. His views are kind of rigid.

FT: Did you initially find that to be any kind of an obstacle as far as you and him building?

Eso: No, cause I share a lot of his viewpoints on Hip-Hop. For the most part I agree with all the things he said [on "Touchy Subject"]. It took me a lot of time to write my verse, to have it not be misconstrued, to have it not sound like I’m arguing for the white race

FT: It had to be tricky for you to write a verse, you probably had to be careful how you phrased stuff and how you presented yourself

Eso: Oh, definitely. It took me a couple of times to really come up with a verse that I was happy with. I did a lot of editing. I had a whole bunch of lines referencing how everyone wants to be an MC after 8 Mile came out, stuff like that. And then I was like: do I really wanna put 8 Mile into this rhyme? It took me a few steps to really do it, to write something I was happy with and then Uno spoke his piece and that was basically it.

FT: Another song off DC 2 that is lyrically challenging is the metaphor-ripe “So Glorious” where you sound like you are rapping from the perspective of a gun, but as the verses evolve we see that it is the American flag that is described as such a dangerous object.

Eso: On both verses of that song I am writing from the perspective of the flag. I’m trying to make it sound so much like I am speaking about a gun just for the people that are listening for that. I was trying to make it as though I was speaking as a gun so people would think that, and then by the end of the song it would hit them that it is about the flag. I think the second verse kind of spelled it out a little easier. I just thought it was kind of an interesting angle to take it from. Both the gun and the flag represent something that is mad dangerous.

FT: There’s definitely a more political edge to this record than on some of you previous records.

Eso: Yeah, at this point in time and this age that we are living in, it’s very, very tough to ignore the political climate. If you’re gonna be speaking to somebody you’d better be telling them something.

FT: Do you think that, because of the world political situation that Hip-Hop has an obligation to speak out on these types of subjects?

Eso: I think as far as being a vehicle for the youth to convey a message to people, definitely I think it’s important. Anybody taking some kind of a stance, you know, fighting the good fight or whatever, if you’re gonna put it into your music thats fine, I support that. As people get older, they mature and they find they have a lot of different stuff on their mind, all that stuff goes hand in hand as far as our political expression on the album. Its just the state of affairs in the world; you can’t really ignore it.

FT: So what’s up as far as future plans for 7l & Eso?

7L: Well, we got the Legacy of Blood tour coming up with Jedi Mind tricks and OuterSpace, probably beginning at the end of September. It’s definitely happening, its gonna be all across the U.S. and parts of Canada. That’s our main thing coming up. We got Vinyl Thug Volume Two coming out probably around the same time. It’ll have some of the regulars on it: OuterSpace, King Syze, Celph and Apathy etc. It’ll be a lot of new material.

Eso: The Demigodz project is also in the works, everybody’s working on their albums. Same thing for the Pharaohs.

7L: Yeah, as far as Demigodz and AOTP; Apathy and Celph are both working on albums now, Jedi’s just about to drop a new record, after all that stuff is done and out there we’ll start working on the side projects.

FT: Any last words?

Eso: Check out the website: www.7L-esoteric.com.

7L: Just tell motherfuckers to cop the CD, don’t download!

There is an American generation that is just coming into its own these days; a generation of poets and prophets who have been lied to throughout most of their lives. Lies from on high handed down in outrageous, gorging fashion. In the 60′s and 70′s it was Viet Nam and a host of Civil Rights issues. In the 80′s there was the threat of utter nuclear annihilation while plagues of crack and AIDS burst out of their incubators to ravage the country. The 90′s… well, we all kind of chilled while Slick Willy caught some neck on the sly, but by the time Bush’s Reign of Terror came along and stole the election that awarded him the base of his tyranny, we pretty much knew we were fucked. There is a segment of this current generation of supposedly “directionless” human beings that were birthed on the lies of Richard Nixon, learned duplicitous-ness and the hierarchy of the Republican way from Reagan, and were forcibly indoctrinated into George Bush’s New World Order. There are those who have witnessed the atrocities perpetrated by the United States government and refuse to be a part of it anymore. They take up arms in metaphorical ways: through activism, through political mobilization; through literature, art and music. Theirs is an intelligence campaign being fought in the minds and the passions of the youth. One of the leading warriors in this struggle has gone straight to the streets with his messages of hope, opportunity and change.

Sabac (an acronym from his early graf days; it means Smoke A Blunt And Chill) came up as a typical Brooklyn kid in the 80′s. He found Hip-Hop early; “I started around 12, 13 years old in my neighborhood, listening to Rap. I used to B-Boy; I used to write graffiti (I was horrible, I sucked at it). At some point I remember listening to “Sucker MC’s” and I remember listening to it and knowing the lyrics and I went to the bathroom, I don’t remember if I was taking a shit or a shower, but whatever. I started reciting the lyrics and I forgot them. Then I started making up my own lyrics and they rhymed and I was like “Oh shit.” I ran out the bathroom, sat down and wrote out like three verses within the hour. It was the first time I thought that I could actually do this.” That was his first epiphany, but the turning point for his lyrical creativity came upon the entry of an essay contest. “My first rhymes were all party rhymes, rhymes about girls, all kinds of misogynist shit. One of the key points was back when Yusef Hawkins was murdered in Bensonhurst. I was in school when that happened, and my teacher told us there was going to be an essay contest and we had to write an essay on how we felt about racism. I asked if it was OK if I wrote a rap. I wrote a rap about how racism affects us all. It ended up winning first prize in New York City. That was a turning point in my life, where I first realized that I could write raps that are positive. My influences at the time were KRS and Lakim Shabazz, stuff like that.”

Sabac continued in this vein, coupling the rugged aspects of a Brooklyn street-life with this newly awakened consciousness. In the early 90′s, while trying to get his career going he had an opportunity to open for a Hip-Hop legend: MC Serch. Serch (who was working on O.C.’s album) invited Sabac to come to the studio and the two began recording Sabac’s first demos. It was while working under Serch at the Wild Pitch label that Sabac met up with DJ Eclipse. Through working various street promotions, Sabac eventually ran into Ill Bill who, at the time, was working in a record store and trying to get his own Hip-Hop career on point. All four were talking about putting a group together and from there the first seeds of Non Phixion were planted.

Non Phixion dropped their classic debut; The Future is Now after several failed deals delayed the album’s release, and it established them as an underground force. With production credits boasting the likes of Primo, Pete Rock, and Large Professor, as well as a healthy dose of some serious Necro heaters, it wasn’t long before the underground was feeling what Non Phixion was pumping. Bac’s politically charged rhymes fell right alongside partners’ Ill Bill and Goretex’s rugged, futuristic gangsta-ism, creating a powerhouse trio who brought it, lyrically, from all angles. Inside the dynamic of a group setting Sabac added another dimension to Non Phixion’s already multifaceted mayhem. Bac made his name as the more political third of NP, the positive voice of revolution whose violence was the productive kind, used to induce change. It is a voice that coexists easily alongside Ill Bill’s paranoid nihilism and Gore’s vicious narratives, and together the three demonstrate a continuous lyrical line of cause and effect.

Outside of his lyrics Sabac maintains a day-to-day life trying to back up his words with action. When you meet him he is just as fired up as he sounds on wax. His commitment is evident every time he speaks, whether it’s about his music, politics, or the weather, the kid’s sincerity comes shining through. As rugged as his music is, his persona is that of an eternal optimist; one who hopes (and secretly knows) that there is something better out there. The positivity that radiates from him is contagious; one conversation and you’ll find yourself convinced that you, too, can change the world. He spends his time outside of music working with teenagers within the New York City public school system, using his experiences to guide and to relate to young kids. The program is called The City Kids Foundation. It is a kind of mentoring program in which Sabac and others speak and instruct on topics like violence, abuse, self-esteem and public speaking. They use creative means to encourage the kids, instructing them to write or to act out their emotions and problems. It is a program that Sabac has been involved with for a number of years. “When I was younger I got into some dirt and I had to go do some community service at the City Kids Foundation and doing that has since made me realize that I can combine music and activism and social work and all that kind of stuff that I do anyway.”

Indeed, with the release of his debut solo album (released on Necro’s own Psycho+Logical-Records); Sabacolypse: A Change Gon’ Come, Sabac has stepped forward and laid the groundwork for his agenda of change. “It [the new album] is something that I’ve always wanted to create. I use it as kind of a blueprint of my voice and my opinions. I was really limited with the amount of time I had to put it together, so I did what I could with the time I had. I started recording around January 24th and the album was complete, done and mixed by March 6th. I remember recording my last verse for “P.O.W.’s,” it was the last thing I recorded and when I was done I took a huge breath like…WHEW. Wow, I just completed a solo album.”

Sabacolypse is a further expansion of who Sabac is as well as what he stands for, both as a man and as an MC. Its song titles read like a dissident’s manifesto, with each song represented by parenthetical elements like Truth, Militance, Awareness, Vision and Solution. Overall, the album is more of a rallying cry than a sermon. “If you listen to the album there’s a lot of topics which Imma touch further upon within the next Non Phixion album and the next Sabac album. I think this one, particularly if you listen to songs like “Organize,” or “Speak Militant” where they are talking about things like truth, solution, militance, things like that, it’s more dealing with the self. I think a lot of what people are dealing with as a whole in society first has to be dealt with in the upliftment of self, organizing around something. You know, being able to speak your mind, speak your truth. Have a vision, have a clear identity. So when I talk a lot about revolution I’m talking about the internal revolution, which is self, and overcoming a lot of obstacles and the barriers that so often keep people down. I’m really passionate about that; it’s what I am when I walk into a classroom in a New York City public high school with teenagers, it’s what I am in my personal life. I think that you can go globally and you can try to attack different issues and make people aware of things, but people will only be aware if they themselves feel like there’s some stuff that they’re doing in their personal lives where they can identify what their own issue is. Once the individual is OK, once you have the internal revolution and overcome those obstacles, then you can take it communally. Then you can take it globally. So my basis for this particular album was really dealing with self.”

True to his life, Sabac’s album deals with the serious issues that face any urban American existence: police brutality, poverty, racism, individual freedoms and the abuse of an unwitting society at the hands of its leaders. By fully utilizing a coded language of street knowledge he blends his messages with a “by any means necessary” posture, and the result is a heated platter of revolutionary-style bangers. Necro’s production is truly on another level, seamlessly lending itself to Sabac’s delivery and content. Many who are already familiar with Necro’s distinct sound might be surprised to learn that it is Necro himself supplying the cool tones of the Fender electric Jazz bass that lurks underneath the spoken word interludes of the Black Panther Party’s Jamal Joseph. “I’ve known Necro now for over ten years. People know the music he puts out is a lot different than the album that I made. He was totally, 100% supportive of me using my voice and doing what I wanted to do: stuff like bringing people like Jamal Joseph from the Black Panther Party into the studio to come and do spoken word, Necro was open to that and actually even played live instruments on it. Bringing in people like Vinnie Paz and Immortal Technique, you know, cats from outside the immediate circle. It was all love. It felt good because it was my voice; I wrote every single verse, every single hook. I arranged all the choruses, everything.”

The songs on Sabacolypse range from real straightforward, Non Phixion-type heaters (like the face-melting anthem “Urban Guerillas” which features Q-Unique and Jedi Mind Tricks front man Vinnie Paz) to Dead Prez-sounding calls-to-arms (“Gats Up, Guns Up”), to the extremely creative “Bacapella” in which the author writes from the viewpoint of the rapidly dying medium of vinyl. Sabac is as adept as a poet as he is a revolutionary, and there is no denying the energy and anger he can bring to a track.

With Sabac enduring a short tour along side fellow lunatics Jedi Mind Tricks before heading out on the Warped Tour with the rest of the NP crew, Bac’s days are hectic. Not only is he busy promoting his own solo album, he’s also working on the new Non Phixion album and still puts in a lot of his time at the City Kids Foundation. With the current political environment and the global instability that we all witness on a daily basis, there is certainly no shortage of material from which Sabac can draw. “The next album from Non Phixion is going to be called Nuclear Truth and we’re going to be delving into a lot of different issues and subjects that we may not have touched upon on The Future is Now, or Sabacolypse, or What’s Wrong With Bill? or The Art of Dying by Goretex. There’s a lot of Hip-Hop out there that’s pretty much generic and I think that there is a need for people to start to listen to different kinds of music and using music as a tool. There’s artists like Non Phixion, as individuals and as a group, who put it out there. I see a lot of things that are going back three hundred and sixty degrees. In the era of the early 80′s, the Golden Age, you had party music along side politically charged music. You had Public Enemy, at the same time you had Nice -N- Smooth. I think that’s coming back around. If you look at Hip-Hop now, what’s actually selling, I think a lot more independent groups are selling, I think (for the most part) a lot more independent groups seem to be a little bit more aware and aren’t necessarily talking about the materialistic things.”

So think about it the next time you plan to do something, or decide to open up your mouth and complain about “the way things are.” While you’re sleeping, there are still a few lone wolves out there whose motives are pure and whose focus and drive keep them going even when everything seems hopeless. Bottom line: get off your ass and do something.

Yeah, classics. Like Illmatic, Rakim and early WU-type classics. As in the type of records that will be revered, studied, debated upon and dissected for years to come. Why? There are many reasons. Primarily is Saigon;s ability as a writer. There is an amazing amount of talent and skill incorporated in the man’s vocabulary, both of which were hard-earned through a life of struggle and violence. Lyrically, there ain’t nobody in the game that is touching the kid. His masterful vacillations between the literal and the figurative are nothing less than poetic, and his visually charged narratives are cold and compelling. He is armed with a vast array of searing, incisive weapons that keep his lyrics razor sharp. His language is steeped both in the vivid realities of street life and the underlying social implications that same street life embodies. His slang is thorough and on point, his vision and focus are clear. Here is a lyricist in the purest form, able to construct lines of rhyme that resonate with a very casual kind of brilliance.

Take, for example, some of his earliest work. A track like the self-produced “Favorite Things” displays its subject matter in a playful and clever format of question and answer. To the tune of the old standard by the same name, it is deceptively simple as a concept. Nonetheless, it is elevated to masterpiece level with a crafted series of lines whose only object is to describe what moves its author. Or, take the Alchemist-produced banger: “Contraband (Pop Quiz).” Using an SAT-like format of multiple choice questions, Saigon poses queries like …”First question for motherfuckers spittin’ this type of thug shit/You claim you blew out a nigga’s brain: what color was it? /A: Reddish? Like the dark shade of oxygenated blood? /B: Brownish, like water that’s mixed with dirt to make mud? /C: Whitish like the man that created the virus to slay us/or was it D: Grayish, like a gloomy and rainy day is?…” In a later verse he spits: “…The fourth question is a question that’s still in me/Who do y’all niggas think it was that killed Biggie? /A: South Side Crips cause Puffy owed them a grip? /B: Some crazy Pac fan that flipped and unloaded a clip? /C: Missiles from pistols of government officials? /D: The same cat that came back and sang I Miss You?…” Other tracks like “Kiss the Babies” and “Shok TV” not only examine the oppressive and defeating aspects of poverty, they are righteously angry and revolution-inspiring songs.

The story goes far beyond his music. From a very early age he learned life through the broken-bottle eyes of a misspent youth. Born in Brownsville, he spent ten years there before moving to Rockland County (aka Mooseknuckle). He found the streets early and in return they led him down an all-too-familiar path of violence and self-destruction. Prison was inevitable, and it didn’t take long for Saigon to become just another number in the system, a number he would come to wear with blazing defiance even after he was released, using it as yet another alter-alias. But something happened during those long years of incarceration (all told, his various sentences earned him over seven years of serious time). Through the influence of older inmates Saigon was introduced to knowledge. The kind of knowledge that a man can really only acquire through living it. Endless hours of reading fed his mind, while the rigors of prison life kept him sharp. Through it all there was Hip-Hop. He spent his battle years pacing the claustrophobic perimeters of the prison yard at Napanoch. It was there he earned the alias The Yardfather, coming into that name by utterly destroying every bit of competition that came at him. From his countless battles in the yard he honed both skill and hunger, all the while furthering his erudite aspirations.

Upon his release he battled within himself, constantly walking the thin line between getting his music to jump off and falling back into the relative comfort of street life. Through his music he emerged as a conscious and angered man, leaving behind the “animal essence” (so named by corrections guards in one of the first youth homes he spent time in) of his youth and becoming an activist. At first his records were met with the typical resistance that the sometimes-elitist world of NYC Hip-Hop shows to newcomers. Nobody was trying to hear the kid. It was only through persistence that he cracked into the ultra-competitive world of the Mixtape circuit. Through some stellar appearances on tapes from Kay-Slay, Whoo Kid and a host of others, word began to spread. He pollied his first single (the aforementioned “Contraband” and another Alchemist-laced heater; “Say Yes” into some noise, and the streets responded.

Now, it’s time for the rest of the world to hear this remarkable story. With the release of Warning Shots, Saigon presents a collection of the infamous tracks upon which he has begun his musical legacy. With a proper debut album in the works (produced almost entirely by Just Blaze) and a buzz hot enough to melt the face of Dr. Doom, it’s all for the taking. Saigon has lived through hell. Mental, physical and spiritual hell, and now he has come to speak about it.

HHS: For those that don’t know, tell the people, in your words, what it is you bring to the game.

Saigon: My shit, I’m like from the ’93, ’94 era. I ain’t the pimp; I ain’t none of that. I just love Hip-Hop. I’m from the era when it was cool to have MTV; you know what I’m saying? Not all this “you need a four-hundred-million-dollar car” and all this crazy shit. I’m from the True School of Hip-Hop, man. From where we did it for the love of the art, before the money came, before the corporate bullshit came. When it was all about who was dope and who was not. Not about who had the most muscles or who had the better marketing scheme and all that other shit.

HHS: Where did you get the name Saigon?

Saigon: I came up with that name. I read a book called Bloods and it was about the Black soldiers in Viet Nam. During the war the people of Viet Nam would drop pamphlets telling the Black people; this ain’t your war, we don’t have no problems with yall. They were actually teaching the Black people, like: you guys are fighting in a Civil Rights Movement back at home where they don’t even look at you muhfuckas as people. Y’all over here fighting for a country that don’t give a fuck about you. At the end of the day it may not have necessarily made a big difference, cause muhfuckas went over there and did everything the American government told them to do, and now you have all these Black Viet Nam veterans that have dope problems, or came home with one leg and they don’t have nothing. If these are the ones fighting for your country they the ones who should be living in these big mansions and shit, not a basketball player. But that’s where I got the name, and I’m glad that they changed the name of the city, so now it’s officially mine. In there is like a war within myself. A lot of times I’m tempted to go back into my old ways and I gotta be strong. There’s easy money in the streets, but I can never, ever see myself going back to hustling, or even promoting that shit.

HHS: Can you give us some insight into how you approach songs as a writer?

Saigon: I like to zone out, I like to have validity in my music, but at the same time, make it lyrical to where you hear the cleverness and the thought going into it. I don’t really have a set writing process, I just go with the flow of how I feel at the moment and how it comes out and how I manifest it. But I take time on my rhymes, I like every line to make perfect sense, you know, I try not to sneak in a bullshit line. When I really do something from the heart, line for line I like my shit to make perfect sense, to where if you read it like a story you’d see the whole thing.

HHS: That’s one of the more striking aspects of your songs. It’s almost like you could write them out on paper and you’d have a collection of full, coherent thoughts, as opposed to the sum of a bunch of lines.

Saigon: That’s what I love, because you can actually read it. Some guy called me from The Source the other day, they was gonna give me a quotable for “Shok TV”, it was between me and RZA. The dude, he don’t know if I got it or not, but he read the lyrics to “Shok TV” and was like; “I had heard the song before, but when I read it, it was so much more powerful.”

HHS Yeah, that song is a perfect example. You have this ability to flip instantaneously from the type of street shit that you do into some whole other political-type shit.

Saigon: I think Hip-Hop is ultimately gonna lead me into politics cause that’s where I think I could make more of a difference. Right now these record companies are not fucking with artists with a political edge, they don’t wanna hear about that; that don’t sell records right now. Right now, what’s going on, like I said; it’s the pimp culture, fake gangstas. You know, a bunch of muhfuckas who like to look at other people’s lives and delve into their lives when they never even lived these lives, and they’re fascinated by it. I call it fantasy rap, we’re living in the fantasy rap era.

HHS: It goes beyond Hip-Hop, though. The world, in general, is fascinated by violence as entertainment, to the point where they’ll exploit it until it becomes a caricature of itself.

Saigon: The bad part about it is they’re real quick to say “this is just entertainment.” How you gonna say it’s just entertainment, and then in the same sentence say “this is real, I ain’t no actor, this is real shit?” You’re confusing the minds of young people. You’re quick to say “this is just entertainment and it’s up to the parent to do this and that” but if it’s entertainment then tell people it’s entertainment.

HHS And especially if the subject matter is dealing with Black Men in America, people are even more fascinated with what I have come to call “Black Death”, meaning that those who oppose Hip-Hop just love it when rappers are talking about killing each other, and those behind the scenes in the music business love to profit from this kind of “Black Death”.

Saigon: Exactly, and it’s fucked up cause we’re the ones that partake in that life. My whole shit is like, damn, if children are the future, like we say, then what the fuck are we giving the kids? How is it gonna be for them growing up? It was fucked up for me growing up because the people older than me didn’t teach me nothing but dealing crack, shooting guns and shit like that and music wasn’t nowhere near what it is now, it’s only getting worse. Now you got these little young muhfuckas thinking they Bloods and Crips in New York, you got them thinking they’re pimps, they jump little girls into their gangs by having them fuck the whole gang, shit like that is killing our youth. Without the youth, man it’s like, we fucked up; we’re heading nowhere fast. It’s like driving a hundred miles an hour into a brick wall.

HHS: There’s a great line in “Shok TV” that says: “imagine the Black Panther Party today using Hip-hop to say the same thing that Marcus Garvey would say, imagine Malcolm X over a beat trying to rally up the troops and take control of the streets…” That’s some for real shit right there.

Saigon: This is the battle we have with Hip-Hop. Imagine if these dudes, with that type of mentality, lived in our era. Hip-Hop went from like a twelfth grade level to a second grade level. When I went down South to do a show, it’s like, I never really understood what this whole crunk shit was about. I went down there and I seen like grown men shaking they ass in the club, like booty-shaking in the club, and it was grown-assed men doing it! I was like; “this is what yall call crunk? This is what you like to do?” This is not what Hip-Hop is. I feel like it should have a whole new name because if that’s what yall call Hip-Hop then I’m thinking about giving the shit I do a whole new name, cause that shit ain’t Hip-Hop. I’m trying to use this shit as a weapon, for what it’s really for. I’m trying to do like what Marvin Gaye did with “What’s Going On?” and songs like that. Shit like Bob Marley; artists who are not here with us no more, but their music touched people’s lives. People telling me; “get crunk”, or “get low”, that shit ain’t got nothing to do with me. I mean, it’s good to have fun and all, but that’s not the focal point of my life. You gotta work before you play.

HHS: There’s definitely a progression, lyrically, from some of your older stuff to the newer tracks, where you are almost going in the direction of a revolutionary or some kind of political activist.

Saigon: Yeah, definitely. The first single (to come off the new album; Dear Black America) is called “Color Purple”. The song is about gangs. Bloods wear red, Crips wear blue. Together they make purple, and the whole song is based around muhfuckas coming together like at the end of the day we’re all Black. It’s a fucking immaculate record. People know I’m coming, all these artists know Imma shake up the game because if I’m coming with the truth and you still kicking that bullshit, you’re gonna stick out like a sore thumb. It’s only a matter of time before people wake up and be like; “hold up, man. What the fuck is really going on?”

HHS: And the thing about it is, regardless of what you’re saying, in the end, you’re putting out dope, dope songs. It’s one thing to have a message and an agenda, but the crux of it is, can you bring it? Can you get you’re point across and still make a banging track? And I think that’s what’s so galvanizing about some of these songs you’ve recorded. Not only do you come with heat, but also you’re using the medium as a weapon, as it should be…

Saigon: That’s why I’m glad I have my independence. I don’t give a fuck, fuck these record companies. These record companies are nothing but fucking pimps. All they do is they take an artist and they tell him: do this, say this, do that… Give a muhfucka a few dollars, you take them out the hood and they’ll do anything for a few dollars. You can get muhfuckas to say anything, you can get these muhfuckas to say “yeah, I’m a homo, I take it up the ass” if you give them enough money. I have validity, I refuse to let these muhfuckas break me, I don’t give a fuck about no record company. They gonna come eventually when they see I’m making crazy noise without them.

HHS: Obviously prison life is a big part of who you are, and the time you’ve spent locked away has had an immense impact on you, as a man and as an artist.

Saigon: I had a lot of time to read in there, so it definitely broadened my vocabulary so I wasn’t just rhyming “nigga” with “trigger”, you know what I mean? The more I read, the more I learned about social conditions, about slavery, about history itself; it gave me more shit to talk about. Before I went to prison I had no sense of direction. I was what these other rappers talk about, bussin’ my gun, shooting people, stabbing people…I stabbed one of my closet friends, you know what I’m saying. It’s not something to brag about, but I just had no sense of direction, I was living reckless. When I went to prison it gave me time to sit down and reflect and to look at things for what they are, what they were. When you meet somebody your age and they got forty-five years to life cause they was living that gangsta lifestyle…these dudes in prison don’t like these rappers, they hate them. These muhfuckas is out here rapping about my life and they getting paid and I’m in here suffering.

HHS: After Warning Shots drops you’re dropping the official, right? Greatest Story Never Told is the title?

Saigon: Nah, I changed the title cause Shyheim, he got the same title and I didn’t wanna beat him up for the name (laughs), so I changed the name. It’ll be all new shit, never heard before. The only thing I’m leaking is “Color Purple”. Imma press that up and put it out cause I really think a lot of people are gonna die this summer, a lot of gang members. If I can save like three of them with this record then I did my job. This record is probably the most powerful record I ever did. I gotta get it out.

HHS: Who you got handling production on the new album?

Saigon: Just Blaze is doing like 90% of the album. We already knocked out like ten records in the past three weeks. We all got our hopes up, everybody’s spirits is high, we all looking at the big picture. It’ll be dropping next year. Dear Black America, that’s the title, because before I go anywhere in my career I gotta address the people first. I gotta let people know what’s really going on behind the scenes. It’s so crazy right now because they showing us how they make stars. Like you look at shit like Making the Band and they show you how marketing and promoting and shit like that could turn anybody into a star. They could go get a fucking bum off the street and through marketing and promotion, make him a star. It has nothing to do with his talent, nothing to do with what he’s about. It’s all about the money they put behind you and how many times they put you on TV.

HHS: They just flipping what politicians have been doing for years…

Saigon: Exactly. It’s the same thing. A lot of artists brag about all these records they sell, but that shit don’t make you hot because, you know, who’s buying it? It’s the muhfuckin’ little white kids in the suburbs, the kids who watch MTV and see your video and they run to the store and get your record. It ain’t like when N.W.A was going platinum without no fucking radio and no TV. That was something that was phenomenal, selling a million records with nothing. No radio, nothing. And they proved that you could do it.

HHS: And it’s almost funny because with groups like N.W.A., they’ve already proved that it can be done, yet no one wants to man up and do it that way anymore.

Saigon: Yeah, because it’s the cookie-cutter era now. Everybody’s following what one person does and they’re following trends. It’s more where you from now than who you know. I mean, right now St. Louis is hot. If I was from St. Louis I would be the man right now. (Here Saigon breaks into an extremely hilarious rendition of Chingy’s “Right Thurr”, complete with an affected Midwest drawl that is too fucking funny for words. Much hilarity ensues…) These muhfuckas do one thing and they run with it. It’s sad right now cause they using this shit to sell deodorant. When I seen Meth and Red doing these commercials I’m like “these muhfuckas can sell Speed-Stick but they can’t get fucking crack out of their communities?” They can sell this, but ask them why there’s no gun control. Muhfucka, if yall didn’t want guns in the ghetto, there would be no guns in the ghetto. It’s funny when you see dudes like the guy who damn near started the Blood gang, if a guy like that can tell you that bangin’ is wrong and to stop doing it, why would you come out as a little punk-ass rapper who never been through nothing, and promote it? If the guy who started it, built it, probably killed more people than you probably punched, why would you come out and promote it? You know the kid Game, that rapper from G-Unit? He was on that TV show Elimidate. He was on Elimidate and he got fuckin’ Elimidated! C’mon, dude. That fake gangsta shit… you poisoning these little kids’ minds into thinking its cool to be a gangbanger, to kill each other, when that may be the same muhfucka that kills your child. He might be the same muhfucka who don’t know how to use a gun and shoots a stray bullet that lands in your son’s head or robbing your grandmother, snatching her purse and she ends up dead. The same muhfucka you influence, now see how you feel about that. Go talk to some of these gangbanger’s mothers who lost they children to the gangs and let them know how you feel…

HHS: What’s Abandoned Nation?

Saigon: Abandoned Nation is my crew, Abandoned Nation is what I’m about, Abandoned Nation is my non-profit organization which gives school supplies and things of that nature to the children of incarcerated people. It’s a foundation where we go to inner cities and teach literacy and teach the importance of education. It’s called the Book Bank Foundation (www.bookbankfoundation.org). The Abandoned Nation Foundation and the Book Bank Foundation are separate entities but they work together trying to just change the ghetto, man. Trying to better the conditions instead of giving people this bullshit fantasy. We walking the walk this year, it’s time to put plans into activation.

HHS: So you don’t just talk about it, you be about it…

Saigon: Exactly, I walk the walk. That’s why I keep the gangsta shit in my music. I do that for a reason. I do that so all the gangsta muhfuckas and all the wanna-be gangstas can listen to me and I hit them with the real, like that shit ain’t cool, homie. I let you know that I lived it and I been through it and I always use the example of how a person can tell you about having safe sex and using condoms and shit, and they can tell you about AIDS and diseases all day. And muhfuckas be like “yeah, yeah, whatever,” and they listen. But when a person who has AIDS tells you, you listen more intently. You listen real intently.

HHS: Is there anything in the world that a man like you fears?

Saigon: Yeah, I fear a lot of things, man. I fear failure. My biggest fear; I fear dying and having nobody know I was here except my friends and family, you know what I’m saying? I wanna die and be talked about a hundred years from now. I wanna be in Social Studies books. I got a lot of friends who died and the only people who would know they ever existed would be their family and their friends. I would rather do something with this one little life I got that changes people and be remembered forever for what I did.

HHS: Last words?

Saigon: I just wanna tell the people to be true to yourself. The sooner you find yourself the better you’ll be as a person, as far as making things happen and being productive. Don’t be a follower, man. Don’t be a follower because 90% of the world is followers and we need more leaders. That’s the reason why we live in these fucked up conditions. Not just Black people, all people, from all walks of life.

HHS: So your solo debut just dropped, why don’t you give us an idea of what we can expect.

Ill Bill: The album’s called What’s Wrong with Bill? This album is my answer to all the “happy rap” out there right now, all the fruit-flavored shit you got coming out; all that so-called “hardcore rap” right now, that shit is soft to me, too. Right now I’m doing that punch-you-in-the-face rap, that new shit; adrenaline rap. If you’re into that soft, cornball rap you’re not gonna’ wanna’ check what I’m doing, it’s really not for you. I don’t wanna’ say that it’s on some throwback shit because we’re doing it so we’re giving you that 2004 goon-ism, you know what I’m saying? And beat-wise, the only dude in Necro’s league right now is Dre. So stay stupid if you want, keep sleeping, but Necro’s making the hardest beats in the game right now and ain’t nobody as hungry for success as we are right now. That’s what this album is about. I’m putting everybody on blast, nobody in the game is as ill as my team, nobody. Ninety percent of the rappers out right now are trash. Either they on some gay shit or they think they hardcore. Every rapper is either sucking 50 Cent or Cam’ron’s dick, trying to sound like G-Unit, Dipset….and even those dude ain’t fuckin’ with me. Aside from dudes like Scarface or Jay-Z or Ghost and a handful of others, most of the shit that’s coming out right now…. C’mon kid, that shit is retard rap. Y’all deserve more than that. I’m dropping this album to save y’all from the moron music that’s coming out right now. Not all hip-hop is boring, hip-hop is alive and well. We lacing you with that grimy shit y’all have been starving for.

HHS: Lyrically you get a little deeper on this album than you have a chance to when recording as one member of a three-man unit. Like in the title track where you delve into some pretty heavy shit. Is this something you strove for as far as why you are doing a solo joint?

Ill Bill: That first joint, What’s Wrong? that’s just about my life growing up, I speak about my grandmother, women in my life, to my moms, to my girl…. just the stress that I deal with on the day to day. I really felt I needed to let people see what was going on in my life and get things across as an artist, not as being a part of a group. Being in a group you’re not really able to express as much in sixteen bars on a track. You gotta’ deal with other people’s ideas and concepts and it’s hard to get as personal as I was able to get on this album. Non Phixon is three MC’s and we all have different ideas and we want to get them across, that’s why we’re all doing solo albums right now because we want to let people have a little more insight into us as individuals.

HHS: What kind of mind-state were you in while writing this album?

ILL Bill: I just wanna’ get things across what I’ve never really been able to get across on a record before, because I always try to touch on something different. I don’t want to talk about the same things on every song. That’s probably the most important thing that I have in mind when I write. As far as working on a solo album, it’s something different because I’m used to being in a group. But, it was kind of easier, in a way, to make this album because if I had an idea I could just drop it. I didn’t really have to deal with anybody’s opinion, I could do exactly what I wanted and conceptually I was just able to go off and spit, and not have to condense all my ideas into a smaller space.

HHS: So being a solo artist, you experienced more freedom to do what you want. On the flipside, did you feel any added pressure to carry a whole album yourself? Usually, like with Non Phixion, you got two other people to carry the weight with you, to fuel you up creatively and such. Do you put that kind of pressure on yourself that you gotta’ come better because it’s all you?

Ill Bill: There’s definitely more pressure, but at the same time, overall, doing a solo record was long overdue. I feel like I can stand on my own two as a solo artist and make a record that speaks for itself.

HHS: Definitely. A lot of people in the game just can’t hold down an entire solo record. I think one of the biggest reasons you pull it off so easily is because you got Necro creating those tracks. How dope was it to do an entire record over his beats?

Ill Bill: I thought it would be interesting to do, and me and Necro were talking about it and we knew that certain people would probably think that being that Necro has a certain sound, a certain style that people automatically associate with him, and that was going to be something that was gonna’ come across on the album. That’s why we were very conscious when we chose the beats for the album. We wanted to make sure that a lot of the beats, when people heard them, would be like ‘Word? Necro made that beat?’  It was bugged out, because of the kind of vibe that we are able to create. That’s just something that goes back to when we were kids. His production just fits perfectly with what I’m doing lyrically. More so than any other producer I’ve ever worked with. The way I look at it is; if it ain’t broke then why really try to fix it? That’s why we set out to do the whole album together. That’s my brother, so it’s a natural thing. For us to work together made sense and I think a lot of people may have heard Necro production of an entire album on his projects, but I think this is something that’s gonna’ establish him as a producer in terms of being able to produce an entire album for someone other than himself.

HHS: Yeah, Necro is definitely slept on by too many heads. What do you think it’s gonna take for people to finally recognize?

Ill Bill: Doing exactly what we’re doing is gonna’ show people. This is what we do, and really we haven’t released that much music up until this point. We’re gonna’ be releasing more music this year than we ever have before so it’s just a matter of grinding and getting the music out there. That’s how people are gonna’ see. To me, he’s the nicest producer in the game right now. We have our favorites, everyone from Dre to Primo, to Large Professor, people like that are legends in the game. Necro is the new blood. Everything he’s doing is on par, on the same level with what our favorite producers did. He’s just continuing what people like Dre and Primo and RZA have done. He’s the next step.

HHS: When you guys approach a track together, how does it work, is it on some telepathic-type shit?

Ill Bill: Yeah, it’s exactly like that, telepathic and shit. There really isn’t any formula to how we do it; it’s different every time. It’s just a matter of me listening to a bunch of beats and picking out whichever ones I’m feeling at the time. I just listen to a bunch of beats that I like and as soon as one grabs me to the point where I start writing to it, it just goes from there. It makes itself happen, it just kind of takes over.

HHS: Is there ever any kind of sibling rivalry between you two, do you find yourselves trying to outdo one another as far as how creative and how bugged out you can get?

Ill Bill: You gotta’ understand, we’re brothers, you know? There’s always gonna’ be some kind of a competition between us. I think. But, at the same time it’s kind of like a double-edged sword. because although we do have that competitive nature, at the same time us being brothers, us being blood, it allows us to connect in way that we really can’t connect with anybody else. You gotta’ peep it from the angle that we grew up in the same house together, we listened to the same music, we were influenced by the same things, we’ve experienced a lot of the same things. There’s some personal shit that we’ve experienced in our lives that will link us together forever, regardless if we make music or not. There’s a lot of levels that my brother and me connect on, so that’s gonna shine through in the music. Sometimes he just makes a beat, man, and it’s just perfect.

HHS: Non Phixion has always been known for bringing tracks that are just straight energy, and you keep that same feel throughout your solo album. How do you maintain such a high level of frenzy?

Ill Bill: Any kind of music that I’ve always been into, I’ve always been into music that gets my adrenaline up. Not only with hip-hop, but I also listen to a lot of hardcore and a lot of metal and that has an influence on me in just how I deliver my rhymes and how we perform when we do shows, whether it’s Non Phixion, or if I’m solo or I’m out on the road with Q-Unique… we’re just on some real, next level shit. I look at a group like Rage Against the Machine and the energy they have on stage or even Slayer, you know? Groups like that have the kind of energy that we want to put into our shit and that’s not really normal with a rap group.

HHS: How is it that growing up in the housing projects of Brooklyn you were ever exposed to hardcore and metal?

Ill Bill: When I was growing up everything was about hip-hop, it was all about hip-hop. I’d go to school and see kids rocking T-shirts of different bands and what not, and I was exposed to it. I grew up on KISS; you know what I’m saying? I was up on that; I was always a big KISS fan as a little kid. But KISS was more mainstream, anyway. It wasn’t like I was really exposed to shit yet. It was all about hip-hop and I had to really go out of my way to really peep metal. I seen like Twisted Sister videos on TV, you know. But that wasn’t the real shit. At that point that was pop. It was already in the mainstream. But I would see Iron Maiden T-shirts, Metallica T-shirts…. the shit that really caught me was the “Metal up Your Ass” T-shirt with the toilet bowl with the knife sticking out of it, I seen that shit and it made me curious cause I’ve always been into really extreme shit. The shit that was like next level. I was always a big comic book collector. The artwork on a lot of metal T Shirts always grabbed me and made me curious about what the shit sounded like. I went out of my way to find it. And that was definitely against what was going on in my ‘hood because out of every window and every car you’d be hearing Roxanne Shante battling UTFO; LL Cool J and Beastie Boys and RUN D.M.C. Ain’t nobody in the hood was really listening to metal and hip-hop, except for my man Weenie-Ween. That was my homeboy, he was always a few years older than us. He was the dude; he was like the Rick Rubin of the projects. He’d walk around in a bubble goose with a King Diamond T-shirt; he had all the Red Alert and Marley tapes and everything. That was the only dude who rocked like that. Then Goretex moved in to Glenwood (projects) and he was the same way, man. He had the same mind frame. We would all hang out: me, Goretex, Necro and bug out listening to everything from Rakim to Celtic Frost.

HHS: What can you tell us about Non Phixion?

Ill Bill: We just dropped The Green CD/DVD which is a retro release in a way. We’re real happy with the way it came out, but more so we’re real happy with the response it’s gotten. It’s in a mixtape format and it has a bunch of pre-Future is Now shit on it: demos, freestyles and whatnot. There’s some brand new joints on there as well. Plus it comes with a bonus 2 hour DVD with everything you’d wanna’ see on Non Phixion. Mad live footage, backstage and tour shit, interviews, plus us just buggin’ out. Something hot that people have been asking about for a minute. Then we’re re-releasing The Future Is Now in a platinum edition 2 CD set, so you get the original version plus an extra instrumental disc as well. We’re also working on a new album right now, the Nuclear Truth album, that’s a new record we’ll be putting out this fall and we’re about 4 or 5 songs deep. And at the same time we’re all putting out solo albums this year. My album comes May 4th, Sabac’s solo joint; Sabacalypse drops June 3rd. Goretex’s shit; The Art of Dying, that’s coming in September. All of us putting out albums: Hyde’s putting out an album, Q-Unique’s putting out an album, his album drops in August. Q’s album is bananas. Necro’s doing like half the album, Q did beats on it. We got Beatnuts doing shit, and we’re still working on it.

HHS: What’s up with Stephen King?

Ill Bill: He’s working on stuff right now as well. He’s gonna’ put a single together. E-Dot’s gonna’ be the next one to come out with an album on Uncle Howie after Q. E-Dot’s shit is shaping up crazy. His album is gonna’ be bananas. He’s definitely coming with some next shit. He’s a little something different than the rest of the Uncle Howie camp.

HHS: Aiight, all this music shit is fine and good and all, but let’s get to the real shit. There can’t be an Ill Bill interview without hitting the most important topic: PORN. Do you have an all-time favorite porn star?

Ill Bill: Ha, yeah, word to porn. Necro put out his first film, we’re all about porn. We would definitely like to explore more aspects of the porn industry, but like everything else, man, it takes time. A lot of time and right now we are just focused on this music thing. As far as a favorite porn star, nah, I don’t really have a favorite. You know why? The porn stars be getting old to me and I be moving on. We was watching Ginger Lynn movies, Vanessa Del Rio, the real wild bitches, ugly bitches like Sharon Mitchell… I gotta’ give props to the ugly bitches, they work harder. The old school shit is the nastiest. It’s hard to watch those old movies without laughing. Big shout out to Joey Silvera, a porn legend. that’s my homeboy.

HHS: Last words?

Ill Bill: I just wanna’ say that, really, people should peep what Uncle Howie and Psycho+Logical-Records are doing right now because we’re laying down the blueprint for what motherfuckers really need to be doing. I know people been waiting a long time for new music from us and we givin’ it to you. This is it. This is the fuckin’ nuclear reactor about to explode, you know what I’m saying? To me, I don’t feel people are really being very creative right now. Everything is one-sided and stale. Either you’re a conscious rapper and you’re on some goody-two-shoes shit, or you’re a so-called “gangsta’ rapper” and everything is thuggin’ the fuck out and “…yo, I’m from the ‘hood…” I’m from the ‘hood too, I ain’t had no father in my house, drug dealing, all of that shit. My uncle ruined his life smoking fucking krills. I’m from the projects; you know what I’m saying? But I’m not scared to leave the ‘hood. Not every song has to be about the ‘hood, the ‘hood, the ‘hood. I’m not saying to make Dungeons and Dragons albums, that shit is fucking corny, too. There needs to be a little more versatility in the game right now.

     While Ill Bill’s presence on the mic is one of the strongest in Hip-Hop, there is no mistaking the importance of what Necro adds. Together the two brothers generate a deadly chemistry that demonstrates equally the power and fury of which both are capable. It is the consistency of Necro’s tracks that are the real gems here, and not only is the standard fare of string-laced creepers present, but on Bill’s album Necro opens himself up with a few tracks that sound nothing like any of his previous works, and the results are fucking bangin’. By adding some touches of R&B, some soul, and some straight-ahead fire, Necro constructs an almost telepathically perfect soundscape for Bill to tear through.

     Known for his savage, blasphemous imagery and equally vivid delivery, Ill Bill has made a living by absorbing the gritty reality that is his life, and spitting it back in the form of rapid-fire, precision rhymes. This time he takes his writing deeper, encasing some really personally insights within the scope of his rhymes. Catharsis, when done right, can be a most powerful form of artistic expression, and Bill and Necro both tap into those dark places within themselves to bring forth an album that is as much exorcism as it is narrative. Musically it cracks your spine; lyrically it gouges your eyes out. Bill’s blood-thirsty penchant for brutality is certainly evident throughout the record, but, being that it is a solo joint, he is afforded the time and the creative space to delve further into topics only touched upon in his work with Non Phixion. Themes of violence, paranoia, alienation, and a host of other dysfunctions are all heavily laced throughout the songs. The opening track “What’s Wrong” is an unflinching and introspective documentation of all the seedy influences that shape and mold a person like Bill. The listener is given a highly personal glimpse into his life, while Necro supports Bill’s bleak vision with a dramatic backdrop. Bill opens himself up by pondering “Tell me where the fuck I went wrong/took the wrong turn, wrong path/what’s wrong with Bill? Inspired by songs to kill/cold-hearted/how can a person be taught to feel/thoughts concealed by a shield of alcohol and pills…” In another verse he offers up what amounts to the reason behind his desire to do a solo record: “I made this album to reveal my inner thoughts and discuss truth…Picking up the pieces of a life shattered/I never knew my life mattered…”

      Meanwhile, “The Anatomy Of A School Shooting” is a clever piece of first-person narrative, where Bill slips inside the fatal black trenchcoats of the notorious duo Klebold and Harris and delivers chilling verbal insight into the mind of the outcast. Necro’s accompanying beat is a trumpeted fanfare that almost celebrates its dark subjects. As one would expect, Non Phixion members Goretex and Sabac Red represent throughout the album, as do Q-Unique and Mr. Hyde. Gore, Bill, and Necro light it up on the ode to their home turf: “Glenwood Projects”, and Gore’s verse is especially vicious and his delivery is rhythmic perfection. Without a doubt Necro’s shining moment is “Unstoppable” a bass-heavy, almost commercially tinged joint that is a real departure for him. The closing track, “The Final Scene” is a continuation of the adventurous concept song “Swordfish”, which appeared on Necro’s Brutality Pt. 1 album last year. In it, Isaac, Ishmael, Jesus and the rest of the cast return for more clandestine, covert operations.

     Just about every track on What’s Wrong with Bill is heat. Bill and Necro consistently bring it with an energy and a passion that are not often felt on most Hip-Hop records. Bill forces us to acknowledge that life is never simple by exposing its darkest sides. His interpretations of socio-political themes like poverty and violence are as necessary and as valid as any historian’s, while his verbal self-examinations have the ability to touch a universal nerve in all of us. By relying on his strengths, Bill proves that he is more than capable of carrying the weight of a solo album. As an MC he is dynamic and, more importantly, as subject matter he is definitely fascinating.

FT: First off, let’s get right into the new record: Piece Maker 2. Give us an idea of how a record like this comes about, how do you get everything together? How many beats are yours?

Tony Touch: Yeah, I produced a little more than half the album. Usually I hook up with producers first. The first step is the beats, I get the beats together, I produce a whole bunch of things, you know. I reach out to a few heads that I know I wanna work with. On this particular project I know I wanted to work with Eric Sermon, I wanted to get with Pete Rock, I wanted to get something from RZA, these are guys that didn’t produce anything on the first album. My formula was to change up the entire lineup, so I reached out to all the producers, got all my beats together first and then I reach out to the artists and have something to present to them.

FT: Who did the track that Q-Unique is on? That shit is bugged.

TT: He did that himself, he set that up. Yeah, he’s rhymin’ his ass off on that track. That’s how he gave it to me, it was a finished product, man. He just put it in my hands and I had to put it on there, you know? He’s a member of Rock Steady Crew, so that’s the Rock Steady support.

FT: Do you have a favorite track off of Piece Maker 2?

TT: Man, all nineteen are incredible to me.

FT: So you got more mixtapes than anybody on Earth. Any idea exactly how many?

TT: Definitely in the upper hundreds, maybe four hundred.

FT: Do you remember the first one you ever made?

TT: The first one I did was in ’87, but that was before I was ever really making tapes for the public, that was just my personal. I still got that tape, man.

FT: Oh, word?

TT: Yeah, it’s got all that old stuff. You know, Biz Markie records, Eric B. and Rakim, MC Shan, that era, the ’87 era.

FT: How important do think the mixtape is to Hip-Hop?

TT: The mixtape is probably the number one item to use when promoting a new artist or new music and now even a new product, man. You got a lot of companies that use mixtapes to promote new products like communication products and stuff like that. It’s just a great way to expose people to what’s new.

FT: You’ve pretty much done everything in the game; DJ, MC, producer, etc. What do you like the best?

TT: Performing live at a club, Djing at a club. Djing is my first love, I mean, I’m Emceeing and producing and all that, and I enjoy doing everything, but my first love is my club gigs. There’s nothing like it, especially when the sound system is right and the ambiance is cool and the room is well structured…that’s definitely my first love.

FT: Where are some of your favorite places where you’ve spun?

TT: Man, there’s quite a few of them. In Japan: Club Harlem, it’s a hot spot. In Puerto Rico it’s club Lasers. There’s a few spots in Germany and Switzerland. They’re sound systems are real tight over in Europe, you know?

FT: With all the people you’ve worked with, from legends to new cats in the game, who are some of the best that you’ve worked with, who have you really vibed with?

TT: Aw, there’s too many to name, you know? Everybody brings something different to the table, man. I got some of that hardcore, some of that abstract, some of that underground, some of that bilingual stuff. There’s like so man different flavors, know what I mean? Like pure lyricists that are just amazing to work with, it’s like everybody brings something different and I try to keep it well rounded, every project I work on, you know? Like, I get something from Large Professor different than what I get from Wyclef; you know what I mean? Everybody’s energy is incredible, but everybody is different.

FT: Yeah, you’ve seen so many MCs, you’d probably have a good idea of what makes the quintessential MC.

TT: To me, you know, what makes an incredible MC is the ability to come up with incredible songs as well as being able to improvise, to adjust to rhyme to any beat and not come with excuses about a beat being too fast or too slow, those are the main elements man, you know? Of course diction and clarity is all part of it, as well as the wordplay having to be incredible. You have to be witty; there’s a certain wit that comes with all that. Stage presence. Definitely the voce, like Guru said; “it’s mostly the voice.…”

FT: Do you consider yourself an “underground” artist?

TT: I’m kinda’ in both worlds, you know what I mean? I work with underground artists, but I’m on commercial radio stations, you know, you hear me in the mix on commercial radio playing stuff and then my mixtapes cater to the underground a little bit more. My records, I think there’s more of a balance of both.

FT No doubt. So what’s in the future for Tony Touch, what you got going on besides the new record?

TT: I got more projects. The Diaz Brothers record is gonna’ come out. That’s gonna’ be on some more lyrical hardcore shit. Then I got a Spanish Reggae album coming up as well, like a Spanish Reggae Hip-Hop album. And you can always hit my website: www.tonytouch.com.  Working with some new artists, like Soni. I got a lot of things going on.

FT: What do you think is the best thing about Hip-Hop?

TT: The fact that it’s always expanding and growing and changing up, you know?

FT: What do you think is the worst thing?

TT: The exploitation of it.

FT: Last words?

TT: Yeah, man, shout-out to everybody that continues to support Tony Touch, everything I do. Look out for more stuff to come out, but right now it’s all about the Piece Maker 2. For every Hip-Hop head, there’s definitely something in there for you.

    With the recent popularity explosion of the mix-tape craze, it seems that every half-assed internet DJ and fledgling label owner has some sort of showcase sampler or self-indulgent CD-R of his boy freestyling over some instrumentals disguised in the mix-tape format. Where a lot of today’s mix-tapes are little more than the musical equivalent of microwave popcorn, Vinyl Thug Music presents itself as a precursor for the upcoming 7L & Esoteric LP: DC 2: Bars of Death, featuring a slew of original and unreleased material. Boston natives and long-time underground legends Beyonder and 7L team up to orchestrate what sounds more like an album than a mix-tape. Included here are the latest chronicles of Esoteric’s continuing war-on-wax with several members of the Weathermen and Def Jux camps as well as the newest single from North Philadelphia’s King Syze. Syze’s Big Pun - inspired flow is vicious and hungry on “Machine Gun Rap”. The consistent appearances by the likes of the Army Of The Pharaohs and Demigodz fam over a soundtrack almost completely constructed by 7L himself makes it feel more like a loose, semi-official release. Throughout the record, Esoteric’s very Jay-Z-like presence is dominant and familiar over longtime partner 7L’s tracks, and the two demonstrate the musical chemistry they have created and enjoyed over the years. 7L’s considerable talents are best evidenced in his ability to hang with any emcee he constructs a beat for. His versatility defines him as a producer; whether creating a dark and atmospheric landscape for other-worldly emcees like Shabazz The Disciple and Killah Priest, or lacing straight fire battle tracks, 7L definitely shines throughout. He is a the quintessential “rapper’s beatmaker” in the way he tailors each beat to subtly underscore the feel of the rapper on the track, while always maintaining his original, unique sound. Solid, thumping tracks like the vicious, acoustic string-laced vitriol that is “Mercy Killing” (where Eso responds to the shots fired at him) showcase the duo of 7L and Esoteric at their best. The God Awful teams up with King Syze and Jedi Mind Tricks’s Vinnie Paz for the vicious and violent “Blitz Inc.” while The Demigodz present a revamped killer: “Public Executions” (which contains one of the greatest, classic Apathy lines ever: “I’m not ill like walking through the projects with a nine/I’m ill like moving solid objects with the mind….”). One of the definite standout tracks is the Beyonder-produced banger; “Boondox Saints” and in it we hear the classic Esoteric; rapid-fire battle raps and cleverly thought-out punch lines over a distinctly driving beat. And Beyonder’s beats are not to be slept on, either. “Crab Move” is another Beyonder-touched joint that was originally intended for DC 2. Also included is Beyonder’s re-working of one of Nas’ best tracks; “Last Real Nigga Alive.”

Vinyl Thug Music steps up and delivers what most mix-tapes are lacking: replay value. Long-time fans of 7L and Esoteric will find themselves satisfied to have these new and unreleased tracks all together in one collection, while for those unfamiliar with the whole Brick Records, Demigodz and AOTP family, this will serve as a great introduction to the clan.

      Necro has made a name for himself as the godfather of sickness. He is an independent impresario and a purveyor of fine smut. A pioneer of what can only be termed as “extreme music,” he has been churning out anthems of gore and violence for over five years now, combining his ill production skills with a penchant for vivid and brutal rhymes. Lyrically, his evil narrations are metaphoric glimpses into a pretty disturbed mind. The kid just ain’t right. Necro does it all, but it’s his beats that are the real standout. They always sound like the score to a low budget snuff flick and perfectly complement his morbid steez. His sick fascination with the darker sides of reality plays out like a slasher movie on wax and the results are not what you’d expect from your typical Brooklyn MC. He sets himself apart from the standard by injecting so much vivid description into his songs. No floss, no ice, just an honest exploration of all the vices that lurk in the darkest recesses of the human mind. Lots of blood, lots of guns, lots of Satanic worship and Slayer references, lots of drugs. It’s the stuff that your parents hate and your girl makes you turn off when you’re in the ride. Necro makes his home in all the murky spots of a twisted psyche, the places where few ever dare to tread.

     Brutality Pt. 1 is more of a compilation album, and continues in the same vein. It maintains that same gritty independent ethos that Necro has established with his earlier releases, in both style and substance. It is released on his own Psycho+Logical imprint. Its shock value alone makes Marilyn Manson look like the cartoon puppet that he really is. Even the artwork, design and layout is a homage to all the old classic horror movies and comic books of the past. The album’s release coincides with Necro’s directorial debut in the world of underground torture porn. All production duties are handled by Necro himself, and all the tracks fit perfectly with the verbal obscenities that he writes. The real surprise here is how Necro steps up with his vocal skills. The first track, “I’m Your Idol”, is bangin’; pure neck-cracking, razor-sharp, rapid-fire delivery over a sparse, hard beat. Lyrically, the album’s content is enough to make even the staunchest deviant cringe and it is sure to send the brigades of family values, white Christian, moral majority-types running to jump on the protest bandwagon. It is one long foray into the forbidden, an autobiographical document of aural pornography. The lead single; “White Slavery”, is an evil depiction of the brutal sex slave trade underscored by a trademark Necro beat; creepy and haunting, driving and pulsing. The beat is as lurid as the “Hard Copy-esque” subject matter the lyrics describe. The song portrays Necro as the dark overlord of a sordid empire of flesh and its detailed descriptions give the listener the feeling that this crazy bastard has lived every word he’s speaking. The entire album is filled with visions of explicit and raw carnality mixed with gritty street realities. Splatter-core anthems include “Reign In Blood”, “Frank Zito”, and “Morbid Shit”. The Uncle Howie camp represents with fellow Non-Phixion  heathens Ill Bill and Goretex lending their talents in some really strong guest spots and keeping the energy level high by contributing some violent lines and sick flows. On “Street Veteran”, Mr. Hyde and Necro trade verses over a nice head-nod track that is laced with a dusty and beautiful piano sample that almost belies the violent nature of the lines it accompanies. “Swordfish” is more of the same heavy-handed lyrical brutality juxtaposed with a delicate, lamenting violin sample that is absolutely sliced by Ill Bill’s verse. On “Our Life”, Necro and Ill Bill combine again to provide compelling insight into the life experience that goes into creating the kind of warped mind that is Necro by reliving and retelling their life’s stories.

     Brutality Pt. 1 is definitely not for the feint of heart. Nor is it for those who are “sensitive.” But for all those that like the sticky, nasty, bloody sort of hip-hop that Necro brings, this is the perfect record.

Mighty Mi – After being a diehard McDonalds eater, Eon read the book Fastfood Nation (which chronicles everything he talks about on the song), and never touched the stuff again. He has been known to scarf down a McDonalds apple pie though on occasion.

HHS: With “Take It Off” you address those who have been quick to jump on the throwback jersey bandwagon. How did you come to write that one? Is it directed at anyone in particular?

Mighty Mi- The throwback jersey craze has become completely out of hand in NY. You go outside of a club and 80% of the cats are wearing them and not knowing what player they’re even repping. High & Mighty being the avid sports fans we are, find that kinda wack. Like cats be rockin the Steve Atwater jersey cause it matches there blue/orange outfit, but not knowing how ill of a safety he was and how devastating of a hitter he was.

Mr. Eon- “Take It Off” is so important.  It is just a microcosm of cultural trendiness.  I mean Von Dutch????  Come on man when you wear some shit that’s trendy you’re a herb.  I wore jerseys in ’85 when Mitchell & Ness was still a skate shop.  No one in NY should be wearing an Iverson jersey.  Can you imagine any Philly head wearing a Larry Bird jersey in Philly in 1984?  That kid woulda got beat down.  And remember in Do the Right Thing when white dude had the Bird jersey?  Now you got black kids who never woulda worn no white dudes’ jersey rockin some Steve Nash shit.  You all look ridiculous if you don’t know where that shit came from.  The history is what makes them special.  Just like hip hop, there’s no meaning no more!

HHS: Who’s the greatest athlete of all time?

Mighty Mi – Bo Jackson.

Mr. Eon- Babe Ruth.  He was the best pitcher in baseball then became the best hitter of all time.  That will never happen again.  People think he was all fat and all but basically he invented the home run.

HHS: What’s you favorite throwback?

Mighty Mi- My 1991 Jerome Brown Eagles Jersey.

HHS: How did y’all get down with Micheal Rappaport?

Mighty Mi- Through a mutual friend that was working on a short film he was producing. I ended up scoring it and we remained cool. Since he was the one that brought Wiggerism to the big screen (Zebrahead), we thought he would add a street element to the album (laughter).

HHS: Your first album, Home Field Advantage, had some pretty high-profile guest appearances on it. This record seems to have more of a “family” vibe, with cats like Cage and Copywrite showing up on some of the tracks. Did you think about reaching out for some more “big names” this time, or did you go into the project intent on keepingthe guest spots to a minimum?

Mighty Mi- Half and half. I mean some people criticized us for having too many guests on Home Field Advantage, so we were kinda conscious of that. We also felt that the emcees on E.C. can hold there own against most of the cats out there. So its like why go out there and pay a good amount of money for a rapper whose verse you may not even feel, when you have a Tame One or a Cage that you can sit and build with.

Mr. Eon- We have to pay 100% too EC.  We can only get so far with one group (H&M) so we need to have our boys shit poppin correctly.  Cage, Copywrite and Tame are so ill.  They are really the only artists in the world besides Ghostface and GZA that I’m hearing right now.

HHS: You hooked up with Rahzel to bring back the classic “Rock the House.” Who did y’all admire growing up; what did you listen to? What’s the first record you ever bought?

Mighty Mi – That song was definitely inspired by growing up in Philly and admiring groups like Jazzy Jeff, Cash Money and Marv, 3xDope, Steady B, Nikki Rap & Scratch, The Singing MC Breeze, Jewel T & Dollar Bill ,etc….My pops is a jazz author so I was definitely raised on that, but personally I was strictly hip hop. The greatest record I ever bought was prolly Criminal Minded, although I’ve also become a huge appreciator of (LL’s) Bigger & Deffer recently.

Mr. Eon – The Rahzel jawn was easy because I practically know the original by heart.  The only shaky part of that was my singing at the end, but it was fun.

HHS: How do you balance an artistic career along with running Eastern Conference? How does one influence the other?

Mighty Mi- Well in the beginning we started EC solely as a way to put out The High & Mighty, but as time went on it obviously expanded. Nowadays, I would say we put a lot more time into EC instead of High & Mighty.

HHS: What can we expect out of High & Mighty, as well as EC, in the future?

Mighty Mi- Next year on EC we have Yak Ballz LP, EC All Stars IV, Copywrite LP, Weathermen LP, and another High & Mighty EP/DVD.

HHS: Any Last words?

Mighty Mi: Look out for the High & Mighty on tour 11-12-03/12-12-03 with Cage, Rasco, Akrobatik and Swollen Members.

Mr. Eon- Hiphop sucks!  Its either emotional bullshit listened to by kids who don’t like hip-hop or the masses, which have totally been brainwashed with this generic shit.  I mean does anyone understand that this music is now just saturated shit?  For an old head like me it’s sad.  To see what everybody was fighting for in the late 80′s gone to hell.  Go ask KRS-1 guarantee he agrees with me and we’ve never met!

Later that Day is an excursion into the everyman’s day, with sidebars into the surreal landscape of some bugged out lyrics, all against a backdrop of tracks that are (at times) as comparable to a Roots or an early Tribe album as they are to an old Commodores album.  Through it all, Lyrics Born’s one of a kind gruff and grumble voice guides the listener through his soul-filled, stream-of-consciousness poetry, inflicting his perspectives with funk-drenched cadences. With darts of alliteration and rapid-fire, double-up style rhymes, LB hits some amazing points in his vocal deliveries while always managing to slip in clever jewels of wisdom through the use of his wordplay. His rhymes are sometimes playful, sometimes silly, sometimes sloppy, but always really goddamn funky. The first track; “Bad Dreams” is an anthem of the everyday that is driven by a solid rock beat with some deep, deep bass and a hook that sticks in your head like peanut butter does to the roof of your mouth. It’s chunky. “Callin’ Out” is guaranteed to get them asses shakin’ out on the dancefloor with its thump-and-grind rhythm, as is the almost live-sounding, disco-bastardized:  “Do That There” which enlists the formidable work of Cut Chemist from Jurassic 5. “Pack Up” is about the only track that comes anywhere near “regular” hip hop, both in sound and in lyrics.  Some straight boom-bap drums lay the foundation for a rock guitar loop as LB takes aim at the surplus of neophyte rappers who just don’t have the skills to bring it. As the hook states; “some things is scared, I don’t play with my stage or my audience.”  “Last Trumpet” teams up Born and his old counterpart Lateef for some vintage, Latyrx-style tag team fusion and it is one of the highlights of the record. It’s a hectic, raucous song that takes its energy and builds and builds itself to inevitable explosion. Both spit so many intricate, socially conscious lines that they’ll have you rewinding like HG Welles just to figure out what the hell they are saying. Towards the end of the album, Lyrics Born veers off into territories unknown with some real trippin’ joints that are perfect for that end-of-the-blunt; swill of the 40 haze that should settle in just as you reach “Love Me So Bad” (which features the ethereal vocals of Joyo Velarde of “Balcony Beach” fame). From there on the shit gets weird.

Most of the production duties are handled very capably by LB himself and are perfectly crafted to fit his organic style. The tracks range from grainy, elctro-funkrock to schizophrenic dancehall rhythms to stuff that is just plain indescribable. Lyrics Born is not afraid to go really “out there” with both his beats and his rhymes, and his bravery is rewarded with an album’s worth of dynamic, soulful music that is perfectly complemented by his abstract lines.  Later That Day is not your typical hip hop (nor is it for the typical hip hop listener), but it manages to capture that gray middle ground between bangin’ and experimental (which is the scariest term in all of hip hop) perfectly.